Episode #31 – Are Cruiseships Bad for the Environment and Wildlife

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In this episode of the Solo Female Travelers Podcast, Mar is joined by Jase Hatcher, Senior Campaigner for Climate and Oceans at Friends of the Earth USA, to explore the environmental impact of cruise ships and what travelers should consider before booking their next cruise vacation.

Cruises offer convenience, entertainment, and the opportunity to visit multiple destinations without constantly packing and unpacking. But behind the all-inclusive experience lies a complex environmental footprint. From wastewater discharge and air pollution to fuel consumption and the effects of large vessels on marine ecosystems, Mar and Jase discuss the environmental consequences of cruising that passengers rarely see or think about.

Together, they examine Friends of the Earth’s Cruise Ship Report Card, which evaluates cruise lines based on sewage treatment, air pollution reduction, scrubber use, and transparency. Jase explains how cruise ship scrubbers work, why wastewater discharge remains a concern, and how shore power could help reduce pollution in port communities. They also explore environmental impacts that the report card doesn’t currently measure, including underwater noise and artificial light that can disrupt marine wildlife.

The conversation also looks at the differences between river and ocean cruises, the challenges of comparing cruising with other forms of travel, and why a smaller ship isn’t necessarily a more environmentally responsible choice. Mar and Jase discuss the importance of industry accountability, environmental regulations, and consumer transparency, while sharing ways travelers can support local communities and make more mindful decisions.

Whether you’re a frequent cruiser, considering your first cruise, or simply interested in sustainable tourism, this episode offers a thought-provoking look at the environmental impact of cruise vacations. Rather than telling travelers what they should or shouldn’t do, it encourages everyone to ask better questions, understand the consequences of their choices, and travel in ways that align with their personal values.

Plus, in our new Weekly Travel Tip segment, we look ahead to destinations to watch in 2027, including Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, Vietnam, Egypt, Morocco, and Sri Lanka, along with emerging travel trends and exciting destinations featured in upcoming travel guides.

Links mentioned during this episode:

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About Jase:

Jase Hatcher (she/ella) is a Senior Campaigner on the Oceans Team at Friends of the Earth US, an environmental organization dedicated to bold systems change for people and the planet.

Jase has 10+ years of global experience spanning public policy, nonprofit services, and public education. She is passionate about co-creating strategies for systems change inclusive of all identities (e.g. gender/sexual, religious, ethnic, racial, ability) that hold corporations and governments to account, and empower historically excluded communities.

She has residency in both the USA and Aotearoa New Zealand and spent most of her adult life living and/or working in Aotearoa, South Korea, and the USA. She is a recent alum of the Asia-Pacific Leadership Program through the East-West Center and sits on the alumni board.

Brought to you by…

The Solo Female Travelers Podcast is sponsored by Solo Female Travelers Tours, our small, luxury, women-only tours that support female owned businesses around the world. Join us on a trip of a lifetime that helps make the travel industry more equitable.

Transcript:

Mar: So, hello everyone. My name is Mar Pages and I’m one of the hosts of the Solo Female Travelers Podcast. Welcome to the show once again this week. Cruises are sold as an easy and all-inclusive self-contained holiday that is often much more affordable than a land-based vacation and can include something for everyone. You show up, you unpack once, you join any activity you feel like, you book excursions, or you join the onboard entertainment options. You go eat at one of the many outlets when you’re hungry, or you have a drink when you feel like it. You wake up in a new city every single day.

If you have kids, there are activities for them too, which they can share with other kids under the supervision of trained professionals, so you can also enjoy some quiet time yourself. But this world of convenience sometimes comes at a cost that is rarely considered by the traveler. The engines running day and night, the fuel needed to power it all, the wastewater and garbage management of what is an equivalent of a small city, the consequences on marine life and what all of this means for the people who live and work in the places where the ship’s docks are all important considerations as well. So our guest today is Jase Hatcher.

She’s a senior campaigner for climate and oceans at Friends of the Earth USA, who will help us understand if and why a cruise vacation is bad for the world at large or the impact that it has on the environment. Jace’s work looks at the impact that large ships have on the climate, the ocean, and the communities along their routes, as well as what governments and the industry could do differently. And I came across the work that Friends of the Earth Do through its cruise ship report card when I was looking for somebody to come and talk about the negative impact or the considerations of the cruise industry.

And the most recent public edition of the cruise report card, which we will, cruise ship report card, which we will talk about today, is from 2024. And it graded 21 cruise lines and 243 ships. And no line received an A, and we will look at why they didn’t. And today we’re going to unpack all of these grades, what they mean, what they leave out, what you should take into account when you’re considering booking a cruise. And as with many of the topics that we bring up on this podcast, this is not an easy conversation. It’s never black and white. It’s always, you know, perspective and lots of things to bear in mind. So I know some of you that are listening may find this an uncomfortable conversation.

You may react negatively and defensively, and this is all fine. Some of you may also have decided not to cruise because you suspect some of these findings are something that you’re not willing to participate in. So, as always with everything that we do at Solo Female Travelers, specifically on this podcast, this is never about shaming, it’s more about, you know, learning and understanding the impact and having an honest conversation about our personal responsibility and also the industry regulations and responsibility in the travel industry. So as cruising continues to grow exponentially, it’s important that we have this conversation. And with all of this in mind, Jace, welcome to the Solo Female Travelers podcast.

Jase: Thank you so much, Mar It’s a pleasure to be here.

Mar: And before we get into all the nitty-gritty details and all of these conversations, I’d love to hear more about you and how you ended in this line of work.

Jase: Sure. So my name is Jace. I use her pronouns and simply I love the ocean. You know, the ocean has its own rhythm and timing and spirit. And I love that for her. I was also raised to respect all beings, human or more than human or beyond human. So getting to bring a specific skill set like policy and advocacy to the protection of the ocean is a real honor. I love my job.

Mar: I love that you for you the sea is female. For me it’s also female. I don’t know if it’s a

Jase: Ha ha.

Mar: matter of the language. In Spanish the sea can be male or female. And the female is more poetic,

Jase: Hehehehe.

Mar: But I like the female one better.

Jase: I love that the female is more poetic. I’m also open to the ocean being gender independent, you know. There’s so much we don’t know.

Mar: yes. It’s true, it can be also it. So

Jase: Yeah.

Mar: Just to get a little bit of context for those who are not so familiar with the cruise industry, could you let us know a little bit more about who regulates the cruise ship industry, who is responsible for making sure that it complies with the laws and regulations?

Jase: Sure. The International Maritime Organization, sometimes just called the IMO, is the UN specialized agency that has the responsibility for safety and security of shipping, and also importantly for today’s conversation, the prevention of marine and atmospheric pollution from ships. So the IMO is the sort of the competent body to make those international regulations. They can also monitor compliance. But really, the responsibility to enforce any of those regulations taken up by the IMO is the responsibility of the member states or the countries who adopt those conventions into their national laws.

And there are some different responsibilities that member states can have, depending on whether they’re acting as a coastal state, a flag state, or port state. So if you’re a port state, for instance, let’s say a foreign ship is calling at your port. You might have some responsibilities, such as inspecting that ship or enforcing a penalty for non-compliance. So there’s a whole system.

Mar: Right, because like you have already mentioned three concepts that maybe people are not familiar with, which is the port ship would be the port, I assume that’s where the ship docks, right? And then, you know, a ship can also be flagged from a different country that’s not the one that is where the company that owns the ship is based, right? So how does that work? How can you flag a ship from you know, lots of ships will have flags from Panama, for example, even though they are American companies or European companies.

Jase: Sure, yeah, that’s a system called flag of convenience. So, you know, we just touched on the various roles member states can play, with one being a flag state. Ships have to be registered to a country and fly a country’s flag to be able to operate in international waters, but they can legally fly the flag of another country other than the country of ship ownership. if that country has what’s called an open registry. And these open registries can be quite attractive to ship owners for lots of reasons. and the amount of ships flying flags of convenience is not small. In fact, I think people would be surprised just by how widespread the practice is. So I definitely encourage your listeners to look into that more if it interests them.

Mar: So let’s imagine you’re a European or a US company, like a cruise ship company, and then you’re flagging your ship in Panama to say something. How would that affect who regulates you and what regulations you need to follow? Do you follow the regulations of the US or Europe or do you follow the regulations of Panama?

Jase: Well, you know, in international waters, right, you have to follow international rules. So the legal responsibility for whoever flags a ship is still there, right? So if Panama in this case would have some legal responsibility to be a good steward of that flag and flagging these vessels. but the differences get a little bit more significant when it comes down to sort of you know, domestic laws around labor, et cetera. So again, there’s a lot to this system. and I would encourage people to look into it.

Mar: Right. And then let’s take a regular cruise ship, which will carry thousands of passengers, one, two, three, four, five thousand, even some of the larger ones, plus crew for several days, and they are at it’s basically a town at sea. So everybody’s showering, they’re doing laundry, they’re using toilets, they’re eating meals. But most of the passengers never think about what happens to all of that water that goes down the drain. So what happens with all that gray water? What happens with the sewage with the grey water on a cruise ship and what separates the, you know, what is treating that water before it gets released into the sea? Or does it get released into the sea? I’m assuming it does, but maybe it doesn’t.

Jase: That’s a good question. And for folks who are like, well, what the heck is gray water? You know, many of us are living in countries where our sewage and other sources of what might be deemed dirty water, like Mar just said, laundry water, showering, dish cleaning water, etc., those things all go kind of into the same sort of place, but on a ship, they’re mostly treated, mostly as two different waste streams. and there are some. Sewage requirements for ships that they must meet, but there is no global legally binding regulation on the regular discharge of gray water from ships.

So having a sewage treatment system also doesn’t necessarily mean those systems are 100% effective, but they are top of the line, shall we say, advanced wastewater treatment systems. They might have better outcomes than others. But really, any system like this requires maintenance and monitoring, and in many cases, some specialized training to operate them properly. So often what this means in practice is you have treated sewage and in many cases completely untreated grey water, which is alongside other things a huge source of microplastics, and those are being disposed of in the ocean.

Mar: So this is like a city, right? A city would also treat its sewage with a completely different treatment system on a ship that a city would have?

Jase: Well, I can’t speak to that, sorry, Mar

Mar: Okay. I was just trying

Jase: Yeah.

Mar: to figure out if it’s the same or like, yeah. And even in like all of the sewage treatment and water treatment, you know, explanations and the reading of the cruise ship report card, it’s you talking about a scrubber. it sounds like something that cleans some sort of pollution in one sense or the other, right? And the report card gives ships an F for using scrubbers because the pollution does not just disappear, right? So they would just clean the water from that. From the pollution and then the water gets discharged. What is a scrubber to understand it? Since this is an important part of the cruise ship report card.

Jase: Yeah, so scrubbers on ships are also known as exhaust gas cleaning systems or EGCS. and What can happen is a release of SOx into the air when you know burning of fuel occurs. Those are sulfur oxides, and SOx reacts in the atmosphere to create sulfate aerosols, which can contribute to things like acid rain and respiratory illness. So, because a whole lot of this in the air, as you can imagine, was found to not be so good for human and environmental health. In 2020, the IMO put into place some sulfur oxide limits for ocean-going vessels.

So to meet these limits, you as a ship, maybe you could burn some less gunky fuel, you know, fuel that’s on the market is readily available, but it’s a little bit more expensive than that gunkiest stuff. or you could use this little thing called a scrubber, which would let ships continue to burn some of that really gunky fuel, but claim to clean out what was needed to still meet those 2020 requirements. And the way a scrubber on a ship works is that it kind of takes that gunky air, right? It takes in some beautiful seawater full of life, and that gets mixed up through various mechanisms. And then in the majority of cases, that mixture is discharged into the ocean.

Now, this mixture has been studied a lot since 2020, and the studies show some really worrying things. There are releases of high concentrations of heavy metals and nitrates, and it’s intensely acidic. So it’s also not a small amount of scrubber washwater going into the ocean. WWF Canada just released their update. National vessel dumping assessment is a report they do every few years. And the most recent one found that scrubber washwater accounted for nearly 98% of all operational waste that’s generated in Canadian waters during that study period. And for your European listeners, what’s interesting is that in 2025, the report, the facts and figures, EMTER report. So this is a report by the European Maritime Transport.

Environmental report, they found the same exact thing in the EU that 98% of permitted water discharges were from open loop scrubbers. And these are really big volumes, right? In multiple places in the world. And yet ship scrubbers remain this thing that most consumers and cruise ship customers haven’t really heard about. So yes, we believe the use of scrubbers warrant some inclusion in the grading system.

Mar: So the better alternative to a scrubber would just be to use more environmentally friendly fuel options that don’t burn and don’t create these secondary fumes, I suppose.

Jase: Well, ships do have the option to use fuels that are, as you said, already readily available. They meet those 2020 requirements without needing a scrubber. They might be more expensive, but right now, you know, the ocean is paying the price.

Mar: And which kind of fuel would that be? Because there’s a lot of talk about liquid, what is LPG? What does it stand for? Liquid.

Jase: A little liquefied natural gas? The energy.

Mar: Yes. Is that the better alternative? But there is also a better cleaner option, right? That is even more expensive.

Jase: sorry, Mar, because I can’t quite get as deeply into that. exactly what fuels we would sort of recommend or say would be best, because there’s a lot of complexity in that. Sorry. There’s something the industry might say would be

Mar: Okay. So then let’s go into the ship report card.

Jase: best, but yeah.

Mar: I guess there’s a lot of perspective into and lots of opinions on what may be better.

Jase: It’s very scientific, yes.

Mar: So then let’s look at the report card, because that’s made for consumption, for consumer consumption, let’s say, like for consumers to consider which ships may be better, which things to take into account. And the cruise ship report card you know, considers four aspects, four elements to create, four categories, to grade ships and companies, right? So what are those four categories that Friends of the Earth thought were the most relevant to take a look at when looking at the environmental impact of a cruise ship?

Jase: Sure, and this for our past report cards. So a couple of the categories are sewage treatment grading. As we mentioned, you know, even if ships have those advanced wastewater treatment systems, it’s really important that we know how they’re operating. And if that information is transparently available and shared, are these systems being maintained, right? They require a lot of maintenance and oversight. So sewage treatment grading is part of the methodology. Air pollution reduction, you know, there might be better grades if you’re quick to have something like shore power or you visit ports and you visit ports that have shore shore power. Those two things together are important. and fuel quality comes into play.

Mar: Because that would mean you’re basically plugging the ship. Does that shore power mean that you’re plugging a ship like you would plug an electric card? Is that what happens?

Jase: Y yes, I yeah, it’s sort of like, you know, you need the outlet and you need the actual plug. And so it’s great to be shore power ready, but if there’s no plugs, you know, how are we meeting those air pollution reduction goals? so

Mar: Right.

Jase: yeah, those three things are included in air pollution reduction, right? Equipped with shore power, visiting ports that have shore power and fuel quality. We already talked a little bit about scrubbers for reasons we’ve already outlined. I hope folks understand scrubber use is an important factor to consider. And also transparency, right? Companies that responded with full transparency are for hire. If you provide a little, I think there’s a little bit of a partial grade. And some folks get a poor grade for a lack of transparency. I feel like as consumers, that transparency is really important when we’re making our decisions.

Mar: Especially because the cruise ship report card is not a static score, right? Things can change like you say,

Jase: Sure.

Mar: the systems need to be maintained, so things could improve or get worse with time, I suppose.

Jase: Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, you know, the goal with any quote report card like this is just to see where the benchmarks are and then how we can improve on that.

Mar: And what do you think is missing from the report card in terms of impact on people and places? Because this is very concentrated into the impact on the environment, on marine life, on the water and on the air. What could be missing from having a whole picture of a cruise ship impact?

Jase: Yes, it’s interesting that you say that because the things that first came to my mind, but are actually the impacts on wildlife are not scored in the report card. so that’s really something important for us to consider. And also ship quieting, which could be relevant for people, but you know, likely more relevant for wildlife. ship quieting is something else that isn’t scored. Commercial shipping and maritime vessels are the dominant contributors, contributors to. Worrying increases in underwater noise. And cruise ships often include in their itinerary visits to very sensitive ecosystems, right? Because that’s attractive to consumers. So ship noise should probably also be considered.

Mar: Right. And what about light pollution? Because they are massive and they have a lot of lights on all the time, I suppose.

Jase: Light pollution is definitely something that we can touch on. You know, from light pollution from ships, it’s often called artificial light at night, or sometimes it’s called ALAN. Sorry to all the alens out there. it can mislead marine creatures, you know, plankton, sea turtles, seabirds that depend on natural light cues for important. navigation, migration, and reproduction cues. So we do feel like it needs to be considered as well.

Mar: Right, even if the ship has got an A grading, it would still not take into account the noise and light pollution that the ship could have on marine life.

Jase: This report card at the moment, that’s correct. Yeah.

Mar: And what does a high grade tell travelers and what can they be careful of? what should they be careful not to assume with a high report with a high grade? Even though nobody has an A now, some people have some companies that have a B plus. So that’s pretty good, you know, if we were at school, this would be a pretty good grade.

Jase: It’s so true. I mean I think it’s important to remember this comparison, right? So a higher scoring fleet is performing better based on these limited metrics. Are they performing well enough? I think that’s something a consumer should look into more deeply for themselves, really. The consumer is the only one who can answer that.

Mar: And when will you update the report card next? Because it’s already a couple of years old? Is it a bi annual effort?

Jase: 2024, right? Well, we’re not quite sure yet, but we hope that you stay tuned.

Mar: Yes, for sure. Now we talked about shore power and also like other fuel options, right? How does that actually work? Does a ship like a car plug into a port? And what kind of amount of electricity does a ship need? That it’s it would seem like it would need a lot of electricity. Like how can a port shore power outlet provide this? This just sounds like for somebody like me, it just sounds like the orders of magnitude would be so huge.

Jase: why is that better? Okay.

Jase: Mm, yes. I’m really struggling with my internet. And sorry, Anastasia, for how much you’re having to have to do this.

Mar: Absolutely. We’ll add it to the show notes.

Jase: Great. But you mentioned sort of why it is better? We touched on those public health aspects. But also there’s something here that matters as well, which we briefly pointed to, which is that you can be shore power ready as a ship, but it’s also important that you’re visiting ports that have the infrastructure to utilize that. You know, building shore power infrastructure is not cheap. So If a company is making really good money off of a cruise ship destination or community making that pollution, right? And then there’s not that support to monetarily build the infrastructure so that shore power can actually be utilized. I think we have to point to some really important principles here, like shared responsibility and polluter pays principles.

We would just like to see the industry doing a whole lot better in that regard.

Mar: So l normally people when they consider cruise ship cruising, they are comparing it with a land based vacation, right? And if you’re a family, lots of people have told me, like, you know, I go with my family, with the kids, with my grandparents, we get on a cruise, it’s easy for everyone, everybody can find something they like. We don’t have to plan anything, you know, grandma wants to do this, grandpa wants to do that, my kids want to do this, and I get to sit by the beach or go wherever I want. So it’s compared to a land vacation in the sense that you don’t have to do all the planning and so on. And people tend to, from an environmental point of view, compare a cruise ship with a land vacation point A to point B.

And so it’s just they’re comparing the driving with the cruise ship, whereas in a cruise ship you get much more. So it’s not really a fair comparison. What would be the fairest way to compare the climate impact of a cruise vacation with flying or with driving somewhere and staying in the hotel?

Jase: I think it’s important to consider every climate impact that goes into any form of travel, right? But that gets us

Mar: Right.

Jase: back to the very beginning. So what are the building materials that are being used? How are ships broken down and recycled and everything in between? so I wouldn’t want to make folks’ decisions for them on this topic, but I think we can provide some important information to help them make that decision for themselves.

Mar: Right.

Jase: I can point to some analysis Friends of the Earth commissioned in recent years just on the difference in impact between river cruises and ocean cruises that may be interesting to many listeners. The results from that analysis that we commissioned from the Energy and Environmental Research Associates indicate that river cruising yields about 20 to 58% lower emissions per passenger each day than our prior estimates for ocean-going cruises. So while it’s not a comparison to land versus ocean-going cruises, I think even just that comparison, river to ocean, is an important one to consider when folks are thinking just about lowering emissions.

Mar: And what makes this difference between river and sea cruising?

Jase: There are a lot of things that can make the difference. We actually have a report on our website on river cruises. And so would encourage anyone who’s really interested in that to look into it. We can also include that. I can feel free to send that to you, Mike.

Mar: Mm-hmm. Yes, we can link it there. I’m just trying to figure out why would that be different if the technology is the same? Is it just because river cruises are smaller or is it because there are regulations that are imposed on river cruises that sea cruisers don’t have to follow?

Jase: Sort of beyond fuel consumption, beyond pollution. Mm-hmm. I mean, I think we touched on several of these today, right? Especially for ocean lovers and advocates, there are many considerations that need to be made before jumping into cruise ship travel. So hopefully today’s discussion was a little bit helpful in outlining some of those.

Mar: Sorry, I’m jumping into marine life. I think that you’ve already answered this, the noise and the light.

Jase: We can go into it more of you then.

Mar: Okay, great. So you’ve talked to me about the noise and the light impact in marine life, the noise and light from a cruise ship. Why has that stayed so far away from the average traveler’s awareness? I feel like the fumes and the water pollution and all of this are much more top of mind, whereas the impact on marine life seems to be something that’s more under the radar that people think about less.

Jase: That’s interesting. I couldn’t point to exactly why that would be, but perhaps it’s simply because when we are thinking about these types of travel, we’re thinking about it from an anthropocentric perspective, so far from a human-centered, you know, perspective. So, you know, underwater noise is likely to be out of passengers’ awareness because it’s underwater. That would be my assumption,

Mar: Yeah.

Jase: right? But as I touched on earlier, you know, commercial ships and maritime vessels are the dominant contributors to an increase in what we call underwater radiated noise. So that’s sometimes called URN. And as you pointed out, some of it is because of ship design. But it’s also crucial to consider cumulative impacts. If there is an increase in ships anywhere in the world, be it overtime in a short period of time, right? There could be an increase in underwater noise. So many of the ocean creatures we’re so fascinated by, like whales, rely on sound to communicate. If it’s too noisy, there might be harm that can happen. That constant noise can drown out sounds that whales and other creatures need to communicate.

So that means staying close to their pods, hearing oncoming predators, and all kinds of other things that frankly we might not be considering as travelers.

Mar: And how do we fix that? Is it just making the ships lie less basically quieter? Or can it be changed by the ships going slower or the changing the routes of the ships so that they avoid sensitive seasons or they avoid migrating pa patterns? How do we fix that besides just making the ships quieter, obviously?

Jase: Yeah. I mean, the measures you just mentioned could have a positive impact. I don’t think we should understate how important it is for action to be taken to mitigate these risks right now, today. And I think we have to be brave enough to ask in a time when our oceans are under such enormous pressure, are we effectively measuring and taking into account those cumulative impacts of all maritime activity and making these longer-term decisions? from a place that honors that impact, including climate-related ocean stress. You know, I think we have an opportunity and a responsibility to recognize the interconnectedness of all things in such a crucial moment in time, even as consumers.

Mar: If we look at expedition ships, which are often, you know, promoted or marketed as something that has a lower impact, would a smaller ship just simply have lower impact or does size is size not enough to determine the impact of a vessel and of a ship?

Jase: Just size alone, I mean, I think lots of factors have to be considered, right? Like what kinds of environments are ships going into? what are the specific factors that could make those environments more vulnerable? so somewhere like the Arctic, right? Releases of black carbon, underwater noise, the risk of an oil spill, for instance, those have really high vulnerability in somewhere like the Arctic. So Pointing out those few, I don’t think it would be fair to consumers or ship operators, frankly, to say that one is inherently more environmentally sound than another. But I would point back to those cumulative impacts and making sure we’re making decisions for the place as future ancestors, right?

Mar: Yes. And the same would apply, I suppose, to river cruises, right? Even though they’re closer to ports and to cities, I guess they have to follow different regulations. The impact is much more obvious than if you’re a cruise ship in the middle of the ocean and there’s not a lot of inhabited spots around you. Is that the case or is that just an assumption that feels like for an un for an unknowledgeable person like me? That’s I assume a river cruise has to follow closer regulations and therefore has less of an impact or is that not really the truth?

Jase: I wouldn’t say it’s down simply to regulations, but you know, we did touch a little on river cruises compared to ocean-going cruises earlier, you know, specifically touching on emissions or greenhouse gas emissions. But some other things to consider might be energy and water conservation, the use of single-use plastics on board, gray water discharge, sustainable food sourcing. and all of these are sort of Part of our river cruise report that’s available on our website and mentioned a little bit earlier for those who would like to look more deeply into that. And I also will just say, as we’re talking about rivers compared to oceans, right?

I’m gonna sound like a broken record here, but the whole catchment is connected, right? so if you’re doing that math and being

Mar: Right.

Jase: that ocean advocate and you’re doing your own research, you may determine that. Any cruise is a better fit, that river cruise is a better fit for you, or you may determine that it’s still not a form of travel that feels completely aligned.

Mar: So of course we’re mostly talking about the impact on the environment in today’s conversation. So we’re focusing on the impact on marine life, on the air, on the pollution in the water, et cetera, rather than the impact on communities or you know, whether a cruise ship is following labor laws or other considerations. But even just from the point of view of the environment, is it the right thing to do to just not cruise? Or what are some of the considerations that people need to have before they decide whether cruising is for them or not, especially if you are, like you say, an ocean lover.

Jase: So is it the responsible choice? I guess that is the question. frankly,

Mar: Yes.

Jase: I would ask the consumer, I would ask your wonderful listeners, what do you think? Like what additional information would help you decide? I’m very much of the mind that folks are going to make their own decisions. It’s a bit of a ruse to say, you know, do this and not that, especially with an audience as astute and well traveled as yours, Mar. but my hope is that the information and perspectives that I ‘ve provided today helps someone make a more informed decision based on their own values and ethics.

Mar: And perhaps if you if you with your expertise and with your background and your focus on the ocean and with the marine life and the animals, if you could put in place one rule tomorrow that you think would make the biggest difference to the industry and to its impact, to its negative impact, what would that be?

Jase: for shipping for maritime.

Mar: For shipping, yes.

Jase: Yeah, okay. I was like, whoa, we could really go broad here. But yes, I

Mar: Ha ha ha ha.

Jase: I think I think in the scope of our discussion today, right? And it’s important to also say, you know, cruise ships and all maritime you know activities, cruise ships are not unique in some of what we are talking about today when it comes to regulations.

Mar: Right.

Jase: So within the scope of our discussion today, I think there’s a few, frankly, a ban on scrubber discharges, meaningfully legally binding rules on graywater discharge, bans on discharges of any kind in sensitive areas, no black carbon from ships in the Arctic, meaningful and mandatory underwater noise regulations. Yeah, and honoring the indigenous law of the sea, I think. I mean I could keep going, but that’s probably enough.

Mar: I guess starting with transparent reporting and access to reality would be a good place to start even. Just to understand what is the reality of most of the cruise ships and the other types of ships. Like you say, cruise ships are only a small percentage of the maritime traffic. Even just transparent reporting so that we understand where we stand may be a good place to start.

Jase: I think that’s a great call from the consumer per perspective, you know, just highlighting again how important transparency is. And you as the consumers, right, listening to this, I hope you know that you have a lot of power and that, you know, some of what we talked about here today, if this is what you want to see from the cruise companies that you patronize, you can talk to them about it. You can write them. You really matter to them. So we just encourage people to. acknowledge their own power and get some of this transparency as well.

Mar: Campaigning, of course, and you have a cruise ship report card that is a ranking, right? So the ones that are performing the poorest maybe should not be the companies that are the most successful. And the ones who are doing their best should be the ones that get rewarded. Just as a starting point, you can use your money to put it where you know, where it makes the best positive impact rather than the most negative one. That’s a starting point. And then you like you say, campaigning, and perhaps on that note you can tell me a little bit more about what Friends of the Earth does. and what kind of I know that you have a lot of campaigns and a lot of fronts open, but what is it what the organization stands for?

And I suppose that people can contribute as well and donate to the campaigns that are being pushed.

Jase: Absolutely, yes. And as you say, Mar I mean, just making the best decisions that you can as a consumer. We’ve already touched on the report card having limited metrics. Maybe those metrics are not the ones that you want to see. So you still feel like you need more information before you say, well, I’ll use this company and not this company, right? That’s completely valid. You know, what we do as an organization is we are really grounded in environmental justice and in climate justice. And we have campaigns that you know cross the spectrum.

We work on food sovereignty, we work on deforestation, and of course, you know, my personal favorite, we work on oceans and making sure that the world remains as healthy and as thriving as possible as we start to reach some of these really dangerous tipping points, you know, that we’re kind of turning this ship around not to. Have too much of a pun and really create a future that everyone can be proud of.

Mar: Right. And you talk about justice because I assume that we all think that cruise ships, you know, the impact on the environment in the seas like the sea is vast but sometimes the impact is not necessarily happening, the negative impact is not necessarily happening in the places where the profits are going to. And I think that’s also important, right? Perhaps the communities that are suffering from the results of pollution in the air or in the water are not the ones that benefit from the profits of the cruise ship companies. I’m sure that’s also an issue.

Jase: That’s very possible, right? and I think again, it’s not it’s not just cruise ship companies, it’s you know, the whole model that we have, I think at the moment, where perhaps equity is not baked in enough into any of our systems. equity is by design. And so, you know, we’re talking by cruise ships here today, we’re talking about the things that we would like to see as consumers and as advocates, the industry doing better. And we could say this across systems, right? That is we at Friends of the Earth and you know particularly from I’ll speak for my team, right? We want to see there be change and more equitable change in a whole lot of systems, especially when it comes to the environment.

Mar: Right. And hopefully today’s conversation has also prompted some people to go in and look into it because I know that many times you just don’t know what you don’t know, right? So many of our podcast episodes talk about topics that are complicated, they’re extremely complex and they’re very hard to come to a conclusion on. It’s not black and white, right? So there may be some cruise ships or some companies doing better than others. It may still not be good enough for some travelers, it may be fine for some others.

What would be, let’s imagine that somebody decides that they want to continue cruising and they’re gonna pick, you know, the best impact one based on the information available from the cruise ship report card and other sources of information. What are some things that they could do when they are off ship to also make sure that their impact is positive besides what the cruise ship impact may be? So let’s say in the communities or even with the wildlife in the places that they’re visiting on a cruise ship, how can they minimize a little bit of the negative impact that cruising may have? And as I said, and we said earlier, like there’s no travel that is free from impact, right?

Even if you’re going online, even if you’re driving, even if you’re taking a train. There’s always an impact out there. So what are some of the things that people could do to offset the impact of their cruise ship trip or their land trip or their driving trip or their, you know, car vacation?

Jase: Sure. I mean I wouldn’t say it can be offset, right? but I can say that we can all try to do a little bit better. And I’d be very interested in that, like, what are some things that you have seen or have implemented as a traveler? Like I can think just this just speaking from myself, right? I always bring a reusable cup, you know, anywhere that I go, whether I’m traveling or not, you know, so are there Are there other things that you feel like have been helpful for you as a traveler to implement, to feel like you are kind of doing the best that you can for communicate?

Mar: Meaning we try to always go local and try to minimize the tourism leakage of the decisions that we make, even as a company but me as an individual as well. So I’ll try to find the local tour operators, the local guides, the local businesses, locally owned, and avoid chains to make sure that the positive upside, the positive investment that tourism can bring stays within the community. Like you say, I have a bottle and I have a water purifier as well, so I don’t have to buy bottled water wherever I go. If the place that I’m visiting, you know, the tap water is not drinkable, then I’ll bring my own filter so that I can drink that water and I don’t have to buy more plastic.

I think it all comes back to like being mindful of the local community, understanding, learning about it and trying to make sure that your impact is positive, that you’re mindful, you’re respectful, you’re considerate of the place that you’re visiting and that your money, your tourism money can stay locally within the community in a way that is contributing to, you know, the conservation, to the local community’s growth and And their opportunities to thrive rather than being, you know, repatriated somewhere.

And I think this is one of the issues with the cruise ship industry, that these are large cruise ships owned by large corporations, most of which are publicly listed, most of which have shareholders somewhere else, US, Europe, et cetera. And so whatever you’re spending on the cruise ship goes back to the shareholders of that, of that origin ownership country. And so it doesn’t stay with the community, especially if you’re on a cruise ship that’s Fully all inclusive, and so all of your meals are included on board, even maybe some of the activities, your entertainment, maybe you actually never step on shore.

However, the water is being discharged somewhere, the pollution is happening somewhere, the noise is happening somewhere in those communities that may not be benefiting so much from the upside of the cruise ship travelers. And so I would always try to, you know, spend my money locally, get off ship, spend money locally. buy tours from local guides and local companies, go and eat at the local restaurants, go and talk to locals and try to learn about their experiences and connect with them and try to make sure that my contribution is positive and offsets that. I guess that would be our philosophy in general. But if I was on a cruise ship I would try to get on land and contribute positively online.

Jase: That’s such a beautiful answer, Mar I mean, I feel like now I am the host and you are the guest because you’re

Mar: Ha ha.

Jase: Really, you’re really the expert when it comes to this question, right? and I hope that

Mar: I have never been on a cruise ship, so I will say that.

Jase: I have to be honest, and neither have I. But I think you said something really important, which is you know, you’re trying to really be mindful and take in the whole perspective of the economics, the environmental aspects, et cetera. You know, and I think this goes quite deep in that I would say I would question whether we could actually offset any of the harm that we might be contributing to when we travel. However, I think always trying to get as much information as you can, doing the best that you can and making those decisions from a place of your own values, that sounds like something that feels important. to you and how you encourage folks to travel. And you know, I couldn’t say that was a bad option.

Mar: Right. In the end the ultimate goal of our podcast and all the communication and education that we put out is just to give people the information that they need to make the decision that they can comfortably sit with and sleep well at night. And if that’s you know, a type of travel that is for you, that for you it has an upside and it has a convenience and a comfort and a and a joy that is, you know, something that you value. Then by all means do it. For some others, you know, going on a road trip may not be something that is for them. Or maybe for some others, flying is not, you know, is not something for them because of course it also generates a lot of CO2 emissions.

And so there are various levels and various things that a person, a traveler, needs to care about. And so, like you say, the important part is to have the knowledge that you can make a decision that’s aligned with your personal values, that I guess in a simple terms that allows you to sleep well at night. And I think that this

Jase: Yeah.

Mar: is. Quite important. I guess with the decisions that we make in our life, not just in travel, with everything that we decide. As long as it’s something that is aligned with your values, then you will just feel more comfortable with your decision and you will be able to fully enjoy it. And so in today’s conversation, the important thing is that we have given people some things to consider. There’s a report card that provides some information that is valuable to add into the mix when you’re making that decision.

Jase: Absolutely. Yeah. And, you know, we mentioned a couple of reports here as well for folks who want to dig a little bit deeper. We’d

Mar: Yeah.

Jase: be happy to share those out. And would be very interested in what your listeners have determined for themselves, not just on cruise ship travel, but also on any kind of travel that would impact our oceans. You know, I’ll leave my details with you, Mar, and folks are free to get in touch if they have additional questions as well.

Mar: Absolutely. We’ll link to all of these reports in the show notes. And you know, for those of you listening, you can leave a comment on YouTube, you can leave a comment on Spotify, you can ask a question. We’ll let Jase know if there’s a question specifically for her or for Friends of the Earth. And we’re always happy to consider this conversation. So please feel free to pop into our Spotify or our emails or our social media or our YouTube.

You can reach out to us through many channels and let us know what you think and Hopefully we can continue to have this conversation that is a very important one and the industry will continue to move forward thanks to, you know, the efforts of organisations like Friends of the Earth who are campaigning and who are being, you know, active in holding companies accountable.

Jase: Thank you so much for having us on today, Mar Really appreciate it.

Mar: Thank you so much for your time, Jase and I hope to see you all next week.

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And now it’s time for our weekly travel tip, a new segment we’re introducing in season two of the Solo Female Travelers Podcast. We’re taking a break from our usual embarrassing travel stories to share some of the tips, recommendations, and insights from Mar’s weekly newsletter. 

If you’re not subscribed yet, this is a weekly email that we have been sending out for over four years every Friday, talking about a very specific travel tip. I guarantee you these are insights from our personal experience that you probably will hear from us first. We’re currently at tip number 179, and you can find all of them on our website under the newsletter section. 

This week we’re talking about the destinations to watch in 2027. Every year, travel publications release their lists of the best places to visit, usually highlighting destinations that have something special happening that year or are becoming increasingly popular. National Geographic and Lonely Planet have already released their lists for 2027, while Booking.com and Expedia have shared their predictions based on booking data. Lonely Planet’s 50 Best Places for 2027 is an annual focus for many, and this year includes places that are part of our tours like Australia’s Red Centre, the Antarctic Peninsula, the Galapagos Islands, Rabat, and French Polynesia.

It also spotlights less visited places like New Caledonia, which Mar visited in August and found remarkably devoid of any tourists, or one of Africa’s least visited countries, São Tomé and Príncipe. National Geographic tends to suggest places based on timely reasons. For 2027, it also includes places that we visit on our tours. Puerto Rico is the starting point of our Caribbean luxury sailing, and Melbourne is the last stop on our Australia tour. They also recommend Malawi, which is not as popular for a safari destination as the other East African countries, but now also has become one of the big five.

And Salvador de Bahia, which in 2027 will host the Carnival and Festa de Yamanja at the same time bringing two of the greatest cultural celebrations together. We’re also waiting to see the lists from Conde Nast Travel and Leisure, CNN, and The New York Times, which happens to be Mar’s favorite. And not surprisingly, Mar has her own list and is keeping an eye on a few destinations herself. We’ll start with Kyrgyzstan, which is experiencing a real tourism boom. Mar recently returned from scouting our own tour there, which is now live for July 2027. will explore its incredible mountains, alpine lakes, and nomadic traditions.

As always, we will be supporting local female-owned and operated businesses, and we are particularly excited about meeting more than 10 local women entrepreneurs, artisans, and community leaders who are keeping their traditions alive and sharing them with visitors. To avoid being carried away by the photos and stunning viral content in social media without realizing the type of experience we have put together or how this trip is different from other trips we offer, we have decided to make bookings by application only. This less about age or background or travel experience and more about travel style and expectations with regards to the strip.

Next, let’s talk about Uzbekistan, which local sources told Mar has already received 12 million visitors by the end of August this year. The country has been trending for the last few years since the visa requirement was lifted for most nationalities, and there are dozens of new three, four, and five-star hotels opening, along with new roads, train routes, entire new districts and museums. There’s a lot of investment happening, making the country increasingly accessible to international travelers. Next, we have Vietnam, which has been on the cusp of becoming one of the most talked-about destinations for the last two or three years, and its popularity shows absolutely no signs of slowing down.

This is also a very popular destination for solo female travelers owing to its safety and volume of other solo travelers. Egypt is another one to watch, especially with the opening of the Grand Egyptian Museum last year and all the preparations happening in Luxor for the incredible total solar eclipse in August of 2027, the longest of our lifetimes. New hotels are opening up, others are being totally renovated, and this may be the only reason to visit in the peak of the summer season. This is a city also on National Geographic’s 2027 list. Morocco continues its impressive growth and is the fastest growing country in the entire African continent.

It will co-host the 2030 FIFA World Cup alongside Spain and Portugal, which will definitely bring even more international attention. And finally, Sri Lanka is quietly making a comeback after several unstable and turbulent years. Mar has visited several times and she absolutely loves the country. Hint hint, she’s hoping we will be able to launch our own tours there in the next couple of years. So these are just a few of the destinations Mar is watching for in 2027. It will be interesting to see how these predictions play out and which other places will make the upcoming lists. If you’d like more of Mars travel tips, personal recommendations, and insights, she shares them every week in our newsletter.

As mentioned, if you’re not already subscribed, you can sign up on the Solo Female Travelers website and in the link in the show notes. And that’s it for this week’s travel tips. See you next week!

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